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Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:15 pm

Admin wrote:I removed the RBD and used the 1.5 alfagoma to re-prime the Bl**dy Sequence which is almost at full throttle again via the UV....

I plan to do a 50% water change and leave the Sand Filter disconnected until I have the new fittings to re-plumb it all....

Which order will best Guys ?

Not sure what you mean regards Dave
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Fittings !

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:42 pm

I`ve just ordered the fittings from 1st Direct which are the cheapest in the UK which will be delivered Friday ... Thank you Alan Sweetie. Very Happy

2, 3 metre lengths of 2 inch C grade white pipe.

2 elbow bends 45 degree both sizes just in case Rolling Eyes

2, 2-1.5 reducers threaded.

1 straight 2 -1.5 inch reducer.

1, 90 degree elbow bend.

Dave the order it is plumbed in atm is RBD to Pump to Heater to Sand Filter to UV then Giant TT...

Should the new pump be situated AFTER the Sand Filter as Alans is ? would it function more efficiently IF primed via a hosepipe at that site please Guys.

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:02 am

Mio

I would always have the sand filter after the pump . If before restriction on suction side could lead to cavitation due to increased negative head. Regards DaveB

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:25 am

[quote="DaveB"]
DaveB wrote:Mio

I would always have the sand filter after the pump . If before restriction on suction side could lead to cavitation due to increased negative head.Not sure what is going on when backflushing aswell. Regards DaveB


What about the heater ? after the pump or Sand Filter ? and will the sharp 90 degree elbow hinder phlow to the new pump

The RBD was full of dropped leaves (no basket trap on the Sequence) but I do have a thick filter wool pad atop the drip tray in the Giant TT...

No debris in the Sand Filter base other than algae.


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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:47 am

Mio

One 90 deg bed on suction side will have little effect although bends should be kept to a minimum and swept bends are preferable to elbows. But one elbow will make little deffeernce.I would put the heater after the sand filter although pressure should not be so great between pump and sand filter even with a valve shut to cause any proble with heater. If a UV is in the system I would also put this after the sand filter, so keeping the pressure to a minimum on the seals & quartz sleeve. You mention trapped leaves in RBD. have you checked the hose to the Sequence or the eye of the sequence impelllor for any debre as this will definately restrict your flow big time. Sorry if I am stating the obvious. Best Regards Dave

best regards Dave
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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by alank on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:04 am

My pump was after a Nexus which took out the big stuff then into a glass filter. As Dave says, any other items should be after the sand filter to keep maximum pressure.

If your pump is above the water line, you are always going to have problems priming it. If you can get it below the water line out of the pond or tank, all you have to cope with is the pipe between the bd and the pump inlet but even then, any water you put in this pipe will flow out of the bd. One solution would be to add a valve between the sand filter and pump, fill the sand filter with the hose or better still with pond water, open the valve and when you see water movement at the bd, hit the on switch on the pump.

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:18 am

I have a small leak on the suction side of the Sequence Guys and don`t want to dissect it until the new pump is fitted ..

TBH the threaded hosetails (like these) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swimming-Pool-Pipe-Fittings-ABS-1-5-Hosetail-Plain-W-/400197243395?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2937796165825802435#ht_1254wt_952 needed to be trimmed to fit the Sequence initially and this one won`t turn any more Rolling Eyes

The suction was so poor from the RBD that the leaves were stuck inside it and simply fell out when I lifted it .... I doubt any were sucked through but will find out once I take the pump apart Rolling Eyes

Plumbing simply isn`t my Forte .. but one of my Achilles as you Guys must have guessed by now Embarassed

Alan the Sequence has always been at ground level ... it`s the RBD cavitating continuously which is causing the problems...

If I take it above water level I can line everything else up at the same -ish height ... if that makes sense scratch

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:36 am

Admin wrote:I have a small leak on the suction side of the Sequence Guys and don`t want to dissect it until the new pump is fitted ..

TBH the threaded hosetails (like these) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swimming-Pool-Pipe-Fittings-ABS-1-5-Hosetail-Plain-W-/400197243395?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2937796165825802435#ht_1254wt_952 needed to be trimmed to fit the Sequence initially and this one won`t turn any more Rolling Eyes

The suction was so poor from the RBD that the leaves were stuck inside it and simply fell out when I lifted it .... I doubt any were sucked through but will find out once I take the pump apart Rolling Eyes

Plumbing simply isn`t my Forte .. but one of my Achilles as you Guys must have guessed by now Embarassed

Alan the Sequence has always been at ground level ... it`s the RBD cavitating continuously which is causing the problems...

If I take it above water level I can line everything else up at the same -ish height ... if that makes sense scratch
You should be ok providing the suction pipe does not have a loop which goes above the pump(over the pond wall) and also has a non return valve which is below the surface of the water in the suction pipe. If you go for the Lowra 0.36kw pump you can clean the basket in a couple of minutes and any water which is lost during removal of the pump should not be a problem. however as Alan says it is always better to have the pump below the waterline.to be 100% sure.Best regards Dave
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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:39 am

I have one of these here > http://www.absolute-koi.com/prod690.html but won`t be able to use it IF the one-way-valve has to be fitted below the water line ....

1st Direct only had the `spring`loaded one way valves ... not the NRV hinged type and the only 2-1.5 inch one-way-valve I can find has a 2lb spring > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIMMING-POOL-PIPE-FITTINGS-NON-RETURN-VALVE-1-5-2-/290602812561?pt=UK_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item43a9470491#ht_619wt_952

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:15 am

Hi mio

please explain why you cannot fit these under the waterline other than the koi knocking themselves as clips can be covererd. A non return valve can be fitted above the water line provided the pipework is 100% tight below the NRV. Think of a glass of water with a beermat on the top and turn it upside down. same principle I think. pipework should remain full of water Regards Dave

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:29 am

DaveB wrote:Hi mio

please explain why you cannot fit these under the waterline other than the koi knocking themselves as clips can be covererd. A non return valve can be fitted above the water line provided the pipework is 100% tight below the NRV. Think of a glass of water with a beermat on the top and turn it upside down. same principle I think. pipework should remain full of water Regards Dave

I have to reduce from 2 to 1.5 inch from the elbow Dave which will be 8 inches plus above the water line .. and then IF the one-way-valve can reduce on the 90 rubber boot sweep joint above water I can either continue with Alfagoma or 1.5 inch hard pipe literally next to each other with the smallest quantities of distance between each appliance IF that makes sense to you Guys scratch

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 am

Mio

You just have to make sure everything is 100% tight. Also any leave which get stuck in the NRV will give you problems allowing water to drain back to the pond.best Regards Dave

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:51 am

I can`t get an NRV type hinged one-way-valve which reduces from 2-1.5 inches Guys ... only the `Spring` types ... will that be ok ... IF so I can ask 1st direct to add one to my order ?

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:55 am

Mio

Should be ok, provided the spring is not too strong, but them leaves are going to give you problems unless you can cover the pond before the onset of autum. Good luck.dave

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:16 am

DaveB wrote:Mio

Should be ok, provided the spring is not too strong, but them leaves are going to give you problems unless you can cover the pond before the onset of autum. Good luck.dave

Usually the Shade Net keeps the leaves at bay until the cover goes on ... I pulled it back recently and added a clear net half way which allowed the smallest leaves through during the high winds ....

I will buy a finer clear net for next year OR clear polycarb if possible.

A poly tunnel would be even better IF Funds permit without decimating my pond fund Twisted Evil

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:34 am

Mio

Good luck with this keep us posted and let us know how it all goes.At the mo I am emptying the skimmer baskets twice daily sometime 3 in high wind. Due to having an overhanging weeping birch the covers will be going on fairly soon. Best Regards Dave

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:54 am

DaveB wrote:Mio

Good luck with this keep us posted and let us know how it all goes.At the mo I am emptying the skimmer baskets twice daily sometime 3 in high wind. Due to having an overhanging weeping birch the covers will be going on fairly soon. Best Regards Dave

I have a Floating Skimmer Dave which is ok-ish at keeping the surface clear but the tail end of hurricane Katia battered the neighbour`s trees which dropped many more leaves than usual for this time of year...with some getting through...

I will blitz the RBD and Sand Filter whilst they are not in use and PP the media in a bid to eradicate the Heretotrophic species which will survive drying out when Nitrifiers don`t otherwise these will re hydrate colonizing rapidly and out compete the Nitrogen converting bacteria.


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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:51 pm

Mio

I am interested to hear that the heretrophic bacteria survive drying out and it is always prudent to pp media after a dormant period. If filter pumps stop butmedia does not actually dry out. After how long would you say it is safe to switch on without problems developing. During a poiwer cut for 12 hours. I was quite worried so have since purchased a portable generator I also have a backup plan so I can fairly quickly switch pumps all being Aquamax ecos.

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:39 pm

DaveB wrote:Mio

I am interested to hear that the heretrophic bacteria survive drying out and it is always prudent to pp media after a dormant period. If filter pumps stop butmedia does not actually dry out. After how long would you say it is safe to switch on without problems developing. During a poiwer cut for 12 hours. I was quite worried so have since purchased a portable generator I also have a backup plan so I can fairly quickly switch pumps all being Aquamax ecos.

Best Regards Dave

Nitrifiers will not survive drying out and will die in stagnant O2 depleted water as you know whereby faculative anaerobic heretetrophs won`t.... several species of whom can switch to Aerobic function in the presence of O2.

This is why I drained the Sand Filter completely yesterday once I disconnected it.

Were I going to re - connect it today I would have done so without PP-Ing it whilst it is still moist....

Because I won`t be plumbing it back in to the system immediately however ... removing the heretrophic population makes sense due to their capacity to multiply withing 15 to 60 minutes unlike the nitrifying Autotrophs which take anything from 12-32 hours ... swamping the Bio-Film by out competing the lithotrophic nitrifiers for both surface area and dissolved oxygen.

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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by DaveB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:56 pm

Mio

Your reasons for PPing sound like good policy. I have always used PP for similar situations ie the turning on of equipment after a dormant period for any lenth of time,(over 24 hours) even if drying out has not occurred. More recently though I have used sodium percarbonate especially on the BB3 which was turned off over last winter. The downside of this was the quick increase in P.H.Even after several flushes to waste. Sodium percarbonate is brilliant for lifting the detrius off the bottom and giving every thing a good clean. However I am not sure what effect this has on Hertrophic bacteria?

I only turned off the BB3 and TT last winter to conserve heat. Now that I have a new boiler and solar panels.nothing will be turned off.

Regards Dave
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Re: Centrifugal Pumps !!!!!!!

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:11 pm

DaveB wrote:Mio

Your reasons for PPing sound like good policy. I have always used PP for similar situations ie the turning on of equipment after a dormant period for any lenth of time,(over 24 hours) even if drying out has not occurred. More recently though I have used sodium percarbonate especially on the BB3 which was turned off over last winter. The downside of this was the quick increase in P.H.Even after several flushes to waste. Sodium percarbonate is brilliant for lifting the detrius off the bottom and giving every thing a good clean. However I am not sure what effect this has on Hertrophic bacteria?

I only turned off the BB3 and TT last winter to conserve heat. Now that I have a new boiler and solar panels.nothing will be turned off.

Regards Dave

I personally would recommend 200 ppm Chlorine for true sterilization Dave ... but because the Sand Filter has fairly new media PP should be able to tackle it. Very Happy


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