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TRICHODINA

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TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:44 am

Taxonomy Arrow http://taxonomicon.taxonomy.nl/TaxonTree.aspx

50-100 um`s = aka Microns ... potentially capturable by an RDF Screen Very Happy

Michel Verolet Excellent Videos below ... Parasitizing Hydra Shocked http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://forum.mikroscopia.com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D6736&ei=80RJTrH7H9SDhQfUxc2TBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEAQ7gEwBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtrichodina%2Bvideo%2Bby%2Bmichel%2Bverolet%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D709%26prmd%3Divnso






Stanley Kings Photostream Arrow

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36058811@N02/3333241676/in/pool-39879664@N00/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36058811@N02/3332679337/in/pool-39879664@N00/


Last edited by Admin on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:01 am

Mio Excelent videos. perhaps you could post some videos of the more difficult parasites to find such as costia and chilodinella and any good procedures/tips for finding them.not forgetting gill flukes, also not always obvious.

Best Regards Dave.

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:19 am

DaveB wrote:Mio Excelent videos. perhaps you could post some videos of the more difficult parasites to find such as costia and chilodinella and any good procedures/tips for finding them.not forgetting gill flukes, also not always obvious.

Best Regards Dave.

I`m working on it Dave Very Happy

Personally I prefer to take `Gill Snips` as most Parasites have an affinity for Gills.




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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:11 pm

Mio I always have difficulty when looking at parasites at 400x don.t seem to get enough light. I have tried one or two gill snips after nothing has been revealled by body scrapes & back of gill plates and there is still obviously somthing wrong, I have only once found gill flukes on my koi. Perhaps I have been lucky.

Perhaps you guys can list the order in which you have found parasites.

In the early days, the most common for me has been Tricodina (until I improved my system)then probably whitespot then bodyflukes.lastly costia and gllfukes once. However this does not mean my koi have had parasites more than this,just what I have found in the past, as I am not sure if there might be one or two parasites now but I cannot always find them. Best Reagards Dave
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:24 pm

The Gill Snip Parasites in the pic above were taken at 400X magnification Dave and there were literally 100`s of them all happily swimming around.... Twisted Evil

When I initially purchased an Apex scope during 08 the first Parasites I encountered were skin Flukes /Trichodina then Gill Flukes ... and once these were all eradicated the `Uncatalogued` Critter proliferated Twisted Evil

Rain has prevented my Gill snipping the Koi and Goldies recently ... but I will try to tackle this soon ... and Hope against Hope they are Parasite Free.

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:52 pm

Best of luck with that. perhaps when you get time you could post your procedure of taking a gill snip and are you using surgical scissors etc

Best Regards dave

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:25 pm

DaveB wrote:Best of luck with that. perhaps when you get time you could post your procedure of taking a gill snip and are you using surgical scissors etc

Best Regards dave

If the sun decides to put in an appearance later Rolling Eyes I will Dave.

I`m not happy about doing procedures on `Cloudy` overcast days due to reduction in Dissolved Oxygen in my heavily Planted WLP .. Now Tropical because of the Silver Dollar ...

The Surgical scissors I use are the`Dissecting`type with blunt edges similar to those used by Dr Tim Miller in this clip Very Happy


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Deed Done!

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:17 pm

But recording time died before I performed the Gill Biopsy Embarassed I`ll try to capture the next one Dave sorry Embarassed

The Anaesthetic Arrow



The Brief Scrape (and Gill snip)



She went under exceptionally quickly ... but recovered just as fast Very Happy


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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:03 am

Mio Thanks for the great photos/videos and excelent video of Dr Tim Millar. He does make it look easy.Good recovery procedure too.

best Regards dave
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:09 am

DaveB wrote:Mio Thanks for the great photos/videos and excelent video of Dr Tim Millar. He does make it look easy.Good recovery procedure too.

That seems t be the way with koi when anethetising koi the quicker they go under the quicker they recover. perhaps we should allow longer than normal especially when doing gill scrapes and check for sudden movements before hand

best Regards dave
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:55 am

The Lemon Goldie`s Gill movements were virtually undetectable ...and

Wish I had MS222 aka Finquel instead of Clove Oil ... it has now doubled in price though... Rolling Eyes Perhaps I should have `held` off Promoting it as much Laughing

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:01 am

Mio I have always used Kusuris product. Think it is MS222 possibly mixed with acertone but not sure. It is now very expensive . Works a treat though

Best Regards Dave

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:31 am

DaveB wrote:Mio I have always used Kusuris product. Think it is MS222 possibly mixed with acertone but not sure. It is now very expensive . Works a treat though

Best Regards Dave

Kusuri KoiSedate is 2 Phenoxyethnol Dave not Tricaine Methane Sulphonate (MS222) and doesn`t contain Acetone Arrow It is considered to have a `Low` Margin of Safety Arrow

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/anaesthetics02.htm

Eugenol (4-ally1-2 Methoxyphenol) is the active ingredient in `Clove Oil`which has a good Safety Margin ... albeit less effective at relieving pain than MS222 .(

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089%2F154585404774101671

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by nmtsaki on Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:50 am

Have you ever thought about using vital dyes when looking at the parasites? When I taught a biology lab (many moons ago) - new students had a difficult time seeing the moving organisms. We would use dilute solutions of methylene blue (I think 0.1%) to visualize them better, especially with the poor microscopes used for students. Also, we slowed down the motion of the faster organisms by adding a drop of glycerol to the slide also. I believe malachite green can also be used as a vital dye. In the lab I work at now, once the parasites are dead, we use diluted iodine to stain the parasites. Works quite well. Not sure if this could be used as a dye with living organisms (would probably kill them fairly quickly!).

Just thoughts . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:12 am

nmtsaki wrote:Have you ever thought about using vital dyes when looking at the parasites? When I taught a biology lab (many moons ago) - new students had a difficult time seeing the moving organisms. We would use dilute solutions of methylene blue (I think 0.1%) to visualize them better, especially with the poor microscopes used for students. Also, we slowed down the motion of the faster organisms by adding a drop of glycerol to the slide also. I believe malachite green can also be used as a vital dye. In the lab I work at now, once the parasites are dead, we use diluted iodine to stain the parasites. Works quite well. Not sure if this could be used as a dye with living organisms (would probably kill them fairly quickly!).

Just thoughts . . . . . . . . . .

I KILLED Instantly all the Tetrahymena in the clips posted into other threads using Iodine Nancy Rolling Eyes That said it had zero impact upon the Uncatalogued Critter Twisted Evil

Methylene blue I will try the next time I scope a Parasite which I hope will NEVER be detected on the Koi Babes ever again Sad given all that has been levied at them treatment -wise toooooooo date Shocked

I am dreading truly Scrape/Scope and Gill Snipping them for fear the wretched Critter remains ... but will have to face this shortly Sad

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:18 pm

nmtsaki wrote:Have you ever thought about using vital dyes when looking at the parasites? When I taught a biology lab (many moons ago) - new students had a difficult time seeing the moving organisms. We would use dilute solutions of methylene blue (I think 0.1%) to visualize them better, especially with the poor microscopes used for students. Also, we slowed down the motion of the faster organisms by adding a drop of glycerol to the slide also. I believe malachite green can also be used as a vital dye. In the lab I work at now, once the parasites are dead, we use diluted iodine to stain the parasites. Works quite well. Not sure if this could be used as a dye with living organisms (would probably kill them fairly quickly!).

Just thoughts . . . . . . . . . .

Thanks I do have some dyes lying around which came with my first microscope which have not been opened so I might have a play around with. I also have a video somwhere on how to go about it.However I now have an Apex microscope which is fairly new( ask Mio) which should be good enough however even with prescription glasses my eyesight is not great.Best REgards Dave
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by nmtsaki on Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:47 am

Play around is the key! I don't have the best eyesight in the world also. I have been known to put on two pairs of glasses What a Face What a Face just to read something very tiny. It works Razz Another option for those of us with this issue, is to buy higher mag. ocular lenses. The norm is 10x, but I've heard they sell them upwards of 30x. My issues would be, I bet they're very pricey. But, it would solve magnification issues.

Usually the dyes work well.
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:13 am

Good idea Nancy Very Happy

My Apex Practitioner does have a 20X lens plus the 10X Dave ... does yours not include one ?

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:08 am

Mio/nmtsaki

yes it does. Does this mean I combine it with the 40 lense to make 800x or with the 10 to give 200. At 800 would I not have more problems with light and can we see these parasites at 200.

perhaps I have not got the contrast control correct as this seems to make a big difference at 100X.

Any help in this area is appreciated
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by nmtsaki on Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:13 am

Ocular X Objective = total magnification. If you are using 10 x ocular lens, and a 40 x objective, the total mag is 400. If you have the 20x ocular x 40x objective, the total mag is indeed 800.

Usually the amount of light that moves through the sample to the eyepieces is controlled by 1) the power of the light source (some use mirrors, others have 1-10 manual light controls, some simple on off). 2) the iris diaphragm, which opens and closes like a flower, and is controlled by a lever. Usually located on the condenser apparatus. (I'm sure you know all this!). The higher you go up in power, usually you need a lot more light. However, there is also a play-off between the amount of light (too much, and you see less detail) and what you see, hence stains are used. Also, there is a part that is move-able in most scopes (at least the ones I have!) that you can move up or down via a knob on the side of the scope that will alter the way the light reaches the eyepiece. I believe this is called the condenser apparatus (not 100% sure on the name). usually, the closer it is to the stage, the more light that gets through. It takes playing around with all things that affect light, awhile to get a feel for how the right amount of light should be per sample. Hope that's not too confusing! Very Happy
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by nmtsaki on Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:14 am

I only have 10x ocular lenses No
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by DaveB on Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:07 pm

I mio

Thanks for that. I too understand that the part for raising and lowering is the condenser. I also understand that this is for controlling contrast but could be wrong. I appreciate the fact that the thinner the sample the better, hence the need to squeese the sample . The additin of water drop helps to allow movement and both in the rivers and sample of edges seems to be most productive. Except for white spot I have found. Please confirm the above is your way of thinking.

Best Regards Dave
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:36 pm

nmtsaki wrote:I only have 10x ocular lenses No

Are Lenses Universal Nancy ? will they fit ALL Microscopes ?

The Apex Practitioner specs here Arrow

http://www.apexmicroscopes.co.uk/apexpractitioner.html

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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by nmtsaki on Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:50 am

No, not all lenses are universal. Most are, but some manufacturers (like newer Nikon) have these huge lenses that would not fit one of my older scopes. I have a few extra lenses to try out on a new (old!) microscope given to me by the clinical lab. Hoping they will fit, as the 40x lens is no good on it. Or, I could try cleaning it up really well!

Not sure on the Ocular lenses; they're not universal also, have to measure the diameter to be sure, or order from the manufacturer. I think the scope that was given to me was a fisher brand, so oculars should be relatively easy to obtain.

Yep, Dave, I think you've pretty much got your thinking right on the way the scope works. I've been using one for so long, I've forgotten just how I know what I know! Shocked
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Re: TRICHODINA

Post by Admin on Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:02 am

NIKON affraid eye piece prices Sweetie affraid


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Re: TRICHODINA

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