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P.H swings

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P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Wed May 16, 2012 10:08 pm

Mio Due to the excessive rain for the past month my p.H of source water has dropped to an alarming 7.0 with less than 1dH K.H. The G.H. has also dropped to 3dH So has the TDS to 60ppm. Fantastic you might think. However I am having that old problems with daytime p.H swings from 7.2 to 7.6. Even with zero blanketweed growth and the UVs are doing more than a excelent job of keeping the water clear. I have tried reducing the fall on a night with drip feed a bicarb only to find the p.H swing the next day is from 7.4 to 7.8. Turning off the air does not help with the design mechnics of the filtaration system so tuning off air to bottom drain only makes no difference. I could slowly bring the p.H up to 8.3 with adding more bicarb and eventually it would be a rock steady 8.3/8.4. However I would really rather keep it at around 7.2 if I could. Even at the expence of adding some G.H.I came across this whch I thought I would be able to put this in my trickle tower.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Essentials-ph-buffer-Calibration-Solution-Hydra-pH-Buffer-20Kg-Koi-Fish-Pond-/280858083694?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item416472416e

However I fear this would be similar to oyster shells and would do zilch. Perhaps it would slowly disolve once the p.H got to 6.8 and therfore buffer the water the other way and keep the p.H in the range of 6.8 to 7. Your thoughts would be apprecieated

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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Thu May 17, 2012 2:25 am

Dave,

Those PH Swings sound fine to me, but your call Sweetie.

Work out how much KH is being consumed daily ... then add Bicarb accordingly

I run my KH @ around 20ppm Very Happy

Fretting about it will keep it in `Focus` which will compound the issue.

WLP PH currently @ 8.6 .. Temp 14.3 with Blanketweed galore ... I`m not going to stress about it though No

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Re: P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Thu May 17, 2012 3:10 am

Mio I actually think the K.H is less than 20ppm. Working out by test kit is not acurate enough even with double the sample and TDS does not drop much just a couple of ppm a day > So think it is being topped up oK.It would be interesting to see how low the p.H would go. But has not gone below 7.2 up to now. If you think those p.H swings are OK then I will see how little bicarb is needed. I would really prefer to keep the P.H in the low 7s if I can

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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Thu May 17, 2012 4:10 am

DaveB wrote:Mio I actually think the K.H is less than 20ppm. Working out by test kit is not acurate enough even with double the sample and TDS does not drop much just a couple of ppm a day > So think it is being topped up oK.It would be interesting to see how low the p.H would go. But has not gone below 7.2 up to now. If you think those p.H swings are OK then I will see how little bicarb is needed. I would really prefer to keep the P.H in the low 7s if I can

Dave,

Mike Snaden is `Happy` if the first KH drop alone turns Blue @ 17.8 ppm ... as am I Sweetie ... so test kits in that regard are adequate for our intents and purposes Very Happy

I have many times measured ZERO KH and still maintained a PH above 7 with `Air` alone ....

A Neutral or slightly above PH is preferable IMO Wink

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Re: P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Thu May 17, 2012 2:47 pm

Admin wrote:
DaveB wrote:Mio I actually think the K.H is less than 20ppm. Working out by test kit is not acurate enough even with double the sample and TDS does not drop much just a couple of ppm a day > So think it is being topped up oK.It would be interesting to see how low the p.H would go. But has not gone below 7.2 up to now. If you think those p.H swings are OK then I will see how little bicarb is needed. I would really prefer to keep the P.H in the low 7s if I can

Dave,

Mike Snaden is `Happy` if the first KH drop alone turns Blue @ 17.8 ppm ... as am I Sweetie ... so test kits in that regard are adequate for our intents and purposes Very Happy

I have many times measured ZERO KH and still maintained a PH above 7 with `Air` alone ....

A Neutral or slightly above PH is preferable IMO Wink
Glad to here that mio. Would stocking densities make a difference. Remember Mike Snaden keeps 1 koi per 1000 gallons or could I be mistaken. I currently have 16 koi in 5400 gallons.Some of which are quite large. I got up at dawn this morning p.H at 7.33. K.H 1.5 d.H. Good job I have loads of air going in 1x80 ltr highblow + 3 x 40ltr Hiblow + shower +waterfall + venturi = saturation on test kit. Best Regards Dave

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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Thu May 17, 2012 5:52 pm

I have 9 ft of Koi in approx 900 gallons Dave ... with 100 lpm `AIR` plus Splash via the TT who consume approx 1 DH of KH every 3 days whilst being fed meagrely atm. Very Happy

Once Temps/ Feeding percentages increase etc more KH will be depleted which I top up with Bicarb to 20ppm-ish on average ...

Last I read ... Mike`s `Stocking` Densities were much higher than yours Sweetie Very Happy

He`s such a nice Guy .. always `chirpy` .. laid back and Friendly isn`t he Cool




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Re: P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Thu May 17, 2012 6:17 pm

I got it all wrong then!. Unfortunately I have never had the honour of meeting the guy. Perhpas one day I will make the journey down to Bristol.

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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Thu May 17, 2012 6:28 pm

DaveB wrote:I got it all wrong then!. Unfortunately I have never had the honour of meeting the guy. Perhpas one day I will make the journey down to Bristol.

His main pond pics are posted online in various places Dave Very Happy

Do visit IF you ever get the opportunity Sweetie ....

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Re: P.H swings

Post by alank on Fri May 18, 2012 2:23 am

My PH is currently 7.6 but is normally 7.2 and can go down to 6.8 if I dont keep an eye on it. 8+ sounds very high but I guess it depends on your supply water.

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Re: P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Fri May 18, 2012 3:33 am

Alan Are you buffering with Bicarb too??

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Re: P.H swings

Post by alank on Fri May 18, 2012 4:15 am

If it drops below 7 I add about a pint pot full of bicarbonate and check againnext day

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Re: P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Fri May 18, 2012 6:24 am

Alan. Quite a lot in one go then. What sort of daytime swings are you getting if any

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Re: P.H swings

Post by alank on Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:58 pm

Not sure on day time swings Dave, I try to do my testing at the same time. Today, I have a ph of 8.1, its never been that high. Is this due to the F&MG in the water?. I stopped the constant trickle feed a week ago and have modified the way the RDF cleans. I now use mains water rather than pond water. This has meant no water change at all for over a week, I usually change 1000 litres per day. Is this the cause for high ph?. I have also added crystal bio and a layer of Jap matting to the shower so maybe that has caused the ph rise.

Should I reduce the ph as my largest koi is sulking in the bottom. If so, how do I do this. I am planning a 2000 liter water change on sunday (30%) before adding a second dose of F&MG.

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Re: P.H swings

Post by DaveB on Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:39 pm

Not sure about the M & F causing a p.H rise. Perhaps you could check some of the water prameters of your tap water. If this is naturally high then your pond p.H will nearly always be high.( unless you run RO) Hard water areas generally have a high p.H but not always. Check p.H K.H & G.H of tap water. High p.H. swings can cause koi to sulk and I would imagine adding chemicals could have the abilty to change p.H. If you have a koi sulking on the bottom, Do not play about with p.H and add load & laods of air. Especially when adding chemicals.Hope this helps

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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:54 pm

MG&F or Formalin is a REDUCING Agent which as the ORP decreases .. will increase PH ....

The sulking is probably a combination of the Costia plus Meds IMO Alan ...

All that `AIR` ie 400 lpm will also increase PH ...

Don`t worry about it ....

During treatment with MG&F it is imperative a 15% water change is carried out prior to each additional dosing ... or accumulation of Malachite Green is likely ....

Fresh water should help ... but if the sulking continues ... Scrape/Scope etc ...

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Re: P.H swings

Post by alank on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:42 am

I have just tested 1400 litres of new water which has passed through the new purifier and the PH is 8.9!!!! We must have a new water supply as its normally 7.2. When I add the to the pond, the PH is going to rise to 8.5 is, is this OK??





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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:55 am

alank wrote:I have just tested 1400 litres of new water which has passed through the new purifier and the PH is 8.9!!!! We must have a new water supply as its normally 7.2. When I add the to the pond, the PH is going to rise to 8.5 is, is this OK??



YES Sweetie ... Very Happy

8.5 is Fine Alan ... mine has hiked to 9 plus many times with ZERO consequences ....




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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:58 am

Frequently when river run - off .. ie in `Soft Water Areas` is insufficient due to rainfall shortage etc .. Supplies from another source are implemented Sweetie ..

OR Algas Blooming in regular supply at this time of year have increased PH due to the higher DO content .....

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Re: P.H swings

Post by alank on Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:13 am

I think they send us some Lakeland water occasionally. Our local reservoirs are at 87% capacity whilst Cumbrian Lakes are 97% so I guess they are preserving our local water.

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Re: P.H swings

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:21 am

alank wrote:I think they send us some Lakeland water occasionally. Our local reservoirs are at 87% capacity whilst Cumbrian Lakes are 97% so I guess they are preserving our local water.

That would explain things Alan Very Happy either way don`t fret about the higher PH in the interim Sweetie .....It is no Big Deal truly .....

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