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Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Mio If that is the case then it might not be such a good idea. Water in radiator as well as underfloor heating due to very high temps give lower COPs. Or size of radiators require increasing in size to give out same heat at lower temps. Just somthing I picked up. However it does say that it works with your exsisiting system. Which probably is a wise move for on those very cold days. My boiler is a 27kw boiler which is quite a lot and goes full belt in the winter. If this were replaced with a heat pump in winter with a COP of 2.5 and a heating capacity similar to the boiler it would have to be one of the much larger units

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:14 am

Just posted this on money saving expert. Both replies are from reliable sources.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=48698899&posted=1#post48698899
Unless there is a similar FIT payment as with solar panels It just doesn,t seem to have the same attraction to me.

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:12 am

DaveB wrote:Just posted this on money saving expert. Both replies are from reliable sources.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=48698899&posted=1#post48698899
Unless there is a similar FIT payment as with solar panels It just doesn,t seem to have the same attraction to me.

Hmm ...

Sounds `Ominous` Dave ... let me know what they quote you when they reply ....

I would love underfloor heating were I affluent enough to afford it though.




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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:01 pm

Just got a call from `Ecovision` who quoted £7-10,000 ASHP system were I interested in buying one from them.

I told him I hoped they were `Free` given the RE Tariff available to them ? He stipulated that this will not be in force until the end of next year when they will re-consider supplying ASHP`s for `FREE` Very Happy

Happy Days !


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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:18 pm

personally I will wait until I see what the tariff payment is going to be before deciding which way to go. I am still not intirely convinced it is going to work. I don,t think ecovision do too as they would imediately offer the free installation.I am still keeping an eye on Moneysaving expert green forum to get other peoples views.
Watch this space/ ( I just hope my boiler lasts for another year)

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:10 pm

DaveB wrote:personally I will wait until I see what the tariff payment is going to be before deciding which way to go. I am still not intirely convinced it is going to work. I don,t think ecovision do too as they would imediately offer the free installation.I am still keeping an eye on Moneysaving expert green forum to get other peoples views.
Watch this space/ ( I just hope my boiler lasts for another year)

Me Too Dave Rolling Eyes

In the Interim ASHP`s might actually reduce in price Very Happy

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:46 pm

Fingers crossed my gas boiler holds out. There is a guy coming to look at it this afternoon fortunately I am on a maintenance contract. lets hope he can still get spares for a 12 year old valient boiler

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:16 am

I`m sure he can Dave Very Happy

I have a 5 yr old `Condensing`Boiler and have never been very impressed with it`s performance/efficiency if I`m honest.

£200 Gas Bill from June - Sept speaks volumes imo.

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:57 am

Hi Guys I am almost convinced. I like the price and the features of this one 50 HS-A with only having a 1 kw input. http://www.cheshire.luxurypools.co.uk/crystalclear_heater_pumps/Heater_pump_Specs_and_RRP.pdf
I should be able to run it for free from April through to sept.with suffiecient excess energy from solar panels.
If the weather continues as it has been it would also be cheaper than gas to run it through the day probably even through the nghts as COP would still be above 2.5

I am hoping to box the unit in with wood allowing openings to allow suffiecient ventilation. Any ideas Guys??

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:14 pm

I`ve been following the thread on MSE Dave and the RIS subsidies sound promising ....

How much bigger would radiators need to be did they mention Sweetie Question

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:57 pm

I have been told that wherever there are single to double up. I they are already double then 1/3 larger. here is the latest rumour from MSE.
There is an RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive) subsidy of (expected) 8.5 pence per "Deemed Unit" that will come into effect Oct 2012 for ASHP's. The average house is expected to be 10,000 units @8.5p, (£850pa)Index linked, Tax Free, Govt. Guaranteed for 20 years.
This opens al sort of questions iw what are the deemed units ie BTU or Kw and how is it metered. Sound like there could be some fiddling going on ( branch off to koi pond maybe??)
Anyway sound like I might be back on the fence again for a while.

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:10 pm

DaveB wrote:I have been told that wherever there are single to double up. I they are already double then 1/3 larger. here is the latest rumour from MSE.
There is an RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive) subsidy of (expected) 8.5 pence per "Deemed Unit" that will come into effect Oct 2012 for ASHP's. The average house is expected to be 10,000 units @8.5p, (£850pa)Index linked, Tax Free, Govt. Guaranteed for 20 years.
This opens al sort of questions iw what are the deemed units ie BTU or Kw and how is it metered. Sound like there could be some fiddling going on ( branch off to koi pond maybe??)
Anyway sound like I might be back on the fence again for a while.

Now is the `BEST` possible time to research any and all prospective projects Dave Smile because `fiddling` of any kind is likely to be unearthed/exposed etc .... Wink

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:24 pm

House Boiler has finally given up the gost at a cost of £1800. Hope this does not mean I have to shelve costs of heat pump in spring. I am thinking of leaving the gas heating on over winter , Just to show how expensive it is to keep the koi warm. If I could heat for free in the summer with heat pump I could the aford to heat using gas boiler in the winter. Hope I am not being too devious

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:05 pm

Is it insured Dave ?


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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:08 am

No unfortunaely not, however it was coverd with a maintenance conract. However after they have replaced £1000 worth of bits. They have given up. They just don,t make them like they used to. The boller has given us non stop problems the past 5 years so I think its time to move on. One concilation is that it is a condensing boiler so will be slightly cheaper to run than the old type combi boiler. Also the new boiler is covered for parts & labour for 7 years, so no need to pay for the maintenancee contract only a service once a year. ( We get this free from scotish power)

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:48 am

I have replaced two Boilers in ten years Dave ... and am not impressed with the Condensing Boiler`s performance since having it installed tbh Rolling Eyes


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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:42 am

I got 12 years out of this one. So I suppose I have done quite well. The one before that was 20 yrs. and then it went another 8 yrs on the pond. But there was nothing on them that could go wrong rally. Cahnge the thermocouple on the pilot light every 2 or 3 years and a circulating pump evey 10 yrs and they would run for ever. However unfortuanely expensively. Thats progress I suppose

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:24 am

Finally got around to buying an air to air heat pump and went for slightly bigger unit than origonally planned. I took your advise MIO and went for the 7 kw unit http://www.heatpumps4pools.com/Duratech/Duratech-Dura-7-7Kw-2011-Swimming-Pool-Heat-Pump-Heater

in the hope that I will be able to run it for a few hours each day for nothing. Once solar panels produce above 3 kwh which could be as early as the beginning of march the way things are going.I plan to run this off my skimmer pump which has no other item on it other than than a venturi. Hopefully the unit won,t look too bad where I have a mind to fit it

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:04 am

Great News Dave Very Happy

What Temp are your Koi Babes at now ?

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:18 am

12 degs

The way I convinced my better half was that according to online data The heat pump running at water temps between 10 deg & 24 degs & ambient temps between 10 and 24 degs. Precisely when I will be running the heat pump has COP figures between 5.5 and 5.9. Even allowing for lower gas prices with COP figures around 2.5 then anything above this has to be cheaper.

http://www.heatpumps4pools.com/myfiles/Duratech-DuraPlus-Cop-Curve%28R410a%29.pdf

We are already getting power output from the solar panels in excess of 2kw. Once the output gets above 3kw then I can run the heatpumps for nothing . A definate win win situation. However it will take sometime to get back the £1000 outlay

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:37 am

Sounds Brilliant Sweetie ... Very Happy 24C and less cost me a Veritable Fortune last Summer using the Elecro Dave .....

Maintaining that Temp for nothing will take the worry out of the equation so you can relax and ENJOY your Koi Very Happy

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:06 am

Its has been a long time since I have been able to afford to keep my koi at 24 degs for any length of time. I now might review what size I will buy my koi. I used to have great enjoyment in buying small and watching them develope. Unfortunately due to rising costs growth rates have been on the poor side. I am now looking forward to hopefully will be a good year all round irespective of weather( temp wise that is

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 am

DaveB wrote:Its has been a long time since I have been able to afford to keep my koi at 24 degs for any length of time. I now might review what size I will buy my koi. I used to have great enjoyment in buying small and watching them develope. Unfortunately due to rising costs growth rates have been on the poor side. I am now looking forward to hopefully will be a good year all round irespective of weather( temp wise that is

Obviously Genetics play a major role in `Koi Quality and Growth potential Dave but `HEAT`and Feed percentage can work wonders during the GROWING Season Very Happy

Jasper Kuijpers Chart below Arrow

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/EAone.pdf

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by DaveB on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:39 pm

Slight change of plan. I now intend to fit it to the main filter system instead of on the skimmer /venturi line. Two reasons.

1. The water must be totally free of debri. Past experience tells me that condenser tubes are notorius for blocking up and occationally debre gets past the skimmer basket and will cause the unit to cut out on high pressure.

2. Mixing cold air with heated water in the venturi is very inefficient .

Due to the increased turn over ie aquamax eco 16000 then a bypass will nedd to be fitted. An optinim flow rate of 2 to 3000 ltrs per hour is required or giving a temp difference between in and out of 1 or 2 degs C. So plenty to play around with.

I have already wired in the supply on a timer with relay and a 16 amp breaker . So already to go on the power side. There is quite a bit of plumbing to do as I am now intending to fit a new UV, but put this on the skimmer/venturi system

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Re: Heat Pump vs Element Heaters !

Post by Admin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Hope you have our Glorious Sunshine sunny to work with today Sweetie Very Happy sounds like you have plenty to do Dave Very Happy


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