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Background Ammonia ?

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Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:56 am

Mine averages 0.02 but has spiked to 0.08 occasionally Rolling Eyes in particular following feeding-on-demand Embarassed

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by DaveB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:47 am

I no longer own a Ammonia meter or test kit which would register such a small anount. When I did (hanna meter) I believe mine run at 0.04 and 0.12 for about 1 hour after feeding. You must have excelent filters/stocking densities ratio for those figures

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:34 am

My 900 gallon show vat has run at those values with a stocking density of 10 adult Koi until I lost the 2 Babes recently Dave Crying or Very sad

Ammonia production is directly proportional to the percentage of food fed (plus decomposition of algas/microorganisms etc) which at 2% bw per day would equate to 33 mg per hour per 1` Kilogram` Koi.

A 4,500 gall pond fed 600 grams food per day produces approx 900 mg Ammonia hourly (higher values following feeding) go without saying ... However ?

Were only half of the 900 mg per hour Ammonia being converted via biological filtration etc Question 450 mg Ammonia per hour would remain in the Pond water producing an Ammonia constant value of 0.02

Hence the `sub-title` of this thread ?

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by DaveB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:20 pm

The figures I quoted were before I changed from japanese matting to K1. Unforunately With having 5500 gallons on 1 bottom drain. I always got a lot of fines in the japanese matting due to/ high turn over/ ppor design. I believe this to be the reason for a higher background Ammonia reading due to decomposing of waste material. During periods of high feeding in the summer, the background niitrite reading was more of an issue and showed lowest reading on the Palin test kit, Ammonia was never really an issue. I tend feed much less these days and have much lower stocking densities as it is both less hassle and cheaper

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:04 pm

DaveB wrote:The figures I quoted were before I changed from japanese matting to K1. Unforunately With having 5500 gallons on 1 bottom drain. I always got a lot of fines in the japanese matting due to/ high turn over/ ppor design. I believe this to be the reason for a higher background Ammonia reading due to decomposing of waste material. During periods of high feeding in the summer, the background niitrite reading was more of an issue and showed lowest reading on the Palin test kit, Ammonia was never really an issue. I tend feed much less these days and have much lower stocking densities as it is both less hassle and cheaper

Nitrite has been more of an issue for me too since moving the Koi this last time.

Ammonia spiked only slightly following a 24 hr 1 Kilo per 900 gallons pellet fest during the experimental `On Demand` feeding..... Embarassed

250 grams plus per ton water Shocked little wonder phoam ensued....I`m astonished how quickly the Giant TT and sand filter K3 caught up with the Ammonia production.

Jap Mat it has been stated traps detritus which then functions similarly to `activated sludge`... but is an efficient Bio Media for that very reason.

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by DaveB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:41 pm

I have no problems with Jap matting, however in my system the shelves which it sat on required regular cleaning. This was due to poor settlement in the first stage vortex due to to high a turn over( even with a Answer screen fiited and also the use of adding clays and sludge busters which I no longer use. Now with the use of static K1 in the settlement and anything going through this just keeps going through the next 3 chaimbers of moving K!.Eventually to be removed by the BB3.

Back on track--- Is there any evidence which suggests that ammonia production is more when feeding koi of different protien levels in the food rather than just wieght as there always seems to be more Docs and background nitrite when feeding higher protien foods especially at temperatures below 20 Deg C

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:12 pm

DaveB wrote:I have no problems with Jap matting, however in my system the shelves which it sat on required regular cleaning. This was due to poor settlement in the first stage vortex due to to high a turn over( even with a Answer screen fiited and also the use of adding clays and sludge busters which I no longer use. Now with the use of static K1 in the settlement and anything going through this just keeps going through the next 3 chaimbers of moving K!.Eventually to be removed by the BB3.

Back on track--- Is there any evidence which suggests that ammonia production is more when feeding koi of different protien levels in the food rather than just wieght as there always seems to be more Docs and background nitrite when feeding higher protien foods especially at temperatures below 20 Deg C

There is Dave ...

The Figures quoted are based upon the average 37% protein...

Proteins are `Deaminated` (broken down into their amino acid) complexes by the liver then excreted as Ammonia via the Gills perpetually.

Interestingly IF Koi are overfed such as were mine during the`On-Demand` feeding`experiment Embarassed few nutrients would be extracted via the intestine when none are needed leaving the waste produced almost as intact as the original pellet ... fully at the mercy of heretotrophic decomposition affraid not a situation Fish Keepers should encourage in their ponds No

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by alank on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:32 am

I have had consistent zero readings for ammonia and the nitrite spike of 0.4 is now down to 0.09, (it was 0.08 yesterday). I have just run a test for today and it shows an ammonia spike of 0.32. The water temp is up from 16.8 yesterday to 18.6 today. (A lovely 26 in the shade air temp).

If this spike is down to PP treatment of 3 days ago , would it have shown in yesterday's test?

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:55 am

alank wrote:I have had consistent zero readings for ammonia and the nitrite spike of 0.4 is now down to 0.09, (it was 0.08 yesterday). I have just run a test for today and it shows an ammonia spike of 0.32. The water temp is up from 16.8 yesterday to 18.6 today. (A lovely 26 in the shade air temp).

If this spike is down to PP treatment of 3 days ago , would it have shown in yesterday's test?

Not necessarily Alan ... Any Algas/Microorganisms etc Oxidized during treatment could take until now to release Ammonia from decomposition.

Has your PH increased along with the Temps ? both would raise the `Unionized Ammonia (NH3) Values.

http://aquabaz.tripod.com/ammoniatables.htm

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by alank on Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:43 am

No PH is stable.

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:54 am

alank wrote:No PH is stable.

Higher Temps alone will increase Unionized NH3 for the same corresponding PH Alan.

Sodium Thiosulphate (Na2S2O3) if you neutralized the PP this way will also react with the chloride ion in the test reagents.... which will skew the results.
This should last no longer than 24 hours though since the Na2S2O3 will have reacted with the chloride ions in the Pond water and will no longer give such false-positive readings.

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:28 pm

What are the Ammonia values today Alan ?

I will test mine before and following feeding now that they are at 20C again Shocked


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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:16 am

Mine Spiked following feeding to 0.39 today Shocked

I have lost the Sand Filter recently though.


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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by alank on Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:22 am

Its down to 0.19 today, you wont believe what I have done, really stupid omission on my part.

The 15000 l/h bio filter has 200 ltr of K1 in it, occasionally, I turn the pump off the allow the water level to rise so the K1 gets fully circulated to prevent it from trapping and holding fine.

Muppet here forgot to restart the pump. It just goes to show how much that filter does in the way of getting rid of ammonia.

I expect zero reading tomorrow.


Last edited by alank on Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:34 am

alank wrote:Its down to 0.19 today, you wont believe what I have done, really stupid omission on my part.

The 15000 l/h bio filter has 200 ltr of K1 in it, I occasionally, I turn the pump off the allow the water level to rise so the K1 gets fully circulated to prevent it from trapping and holding fine.

Muppet here forgot to restart the pump. It just goes to show how much that filter does in the way of getting rid of ammonia.

I expect zero reading tomorrow.

Removing the `Sand Filter` suddenly I suspect wasn`t my best move either Alan Embarassed

The Giant TT has had it`s work cut out subsequently ... That said the 0.59 Ammonia values translates as 0.0041 according to this UIA calculator >
http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:19 pm

Ammonia (providing bio filtration/turnover rates etc are adequate) should be converted readily as quickly as it is being produced ....

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:35 pm

Great Information source `FishDoc` website I find Guys Very Happy

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/filtration/koi5flow.htm

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Re: Background Ammonia ?

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:46 pm

When using the aforementioned calculator posted previously ?

http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

Remember to chose the correct test kit format you are measuring ....

If you have a value specified as ammonia/nitrogen it can be
converted to ammonia ion by multiplying the reading by 1.3.

If the value is expressed as ammonia ion ... it can be converted to ammonia/nitrogen by dividing by 1.3.

To Illustrate .....

If the ammonia ion reading is 2.6 ppm you can divide this by 1.3 and you will get an ammonia/nitrogen reading of 2.0 ppm (2.6 / 1.3= 2.0). The conversion factor of 1.3 is based on the atomic weight proportions of nitrogen and hydrogen in ammonia (1.3 weight units of ammonia contain 1.0 weight units of nitrogen).

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Lightning ?

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:30 am

Several `Relaxation/Chilling Out`Audio, Youtube Videos incorporate various `WATER`related sounds into their format such as this one I listened to recently >



Interestingly .. Lightning plays a Major role in the Atmospheric "fixation" of N2/Nitrogen Gas .... converting such to nitrogen oxides .......

Not sure whether I have ever tested rainwater for `nitrogen` by products such as NO3/2 etc ... but it might be phun Laughing to do so at some point in time Wink

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/N/NitrogenCycle.html


Fascinating Info >

http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/Encyclopedia.asp?GasID=5


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